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Feb. 16th, 2004 08:18 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
greenygalFeeling much better. Watching Fruits Basket all weekend will do that for you...
Okay,![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
trixie_chick, I've decided that Kyo really is the worst off--the level of disgust and fear shown him by, uh, pretty much everyone he would have known as he was growing up puts him way over the top. Plus his parents are appalling (not uncommon among the Sohmas, but it does seem particularly bad in this case) and he really does turn into a monster. Poor boy. That said, I still suspect that Yuki would have given his right arm to have someone like Kazuma there for him as he was growing up. Particularly if it was instead of Akito. Add it to the list of "things neither of them understands that the other envies them for." Especially since I have the sneaking suspicion that Kyo, not unreasonably wrapped up in his own problems, just added Akito to the mental list of all the people who adored Yuki--I'm sure it did not help Kyo's attitude towards Yuki that the designated head of the family was obsessed with him--and never realized that that wasn't necessarily a good thing.
It also becomes clear to me why Kyo dislikes Kagura's attentions so much. Well, okay, given that Kagura is so violent and obsessive it's not as though he needs reasons, but I confess to having wondering if someone so starved for affection and positive attention wouldn't be at least a little drawn, even against his better judgment, to someone passionately declaring her love for him. In the light of the last few episodes, though, this makes sense. For one thing, she's not the only person who cares about him, and in fact he may view her as a competitor for Kazuma's attention, since he teaches martial arts to all the Sohma kids, and Kagura is apparently better at it than Kyo is. (Do I think this is yet another layer to Kyo's resentment of Yuki? Well--it wouldn't surprise me.) More importantly, though, she bears a strong resemblance to Kyo's mother--constant declarations of love for him paired with a total failure to back them up. Just saying the words isn't enough for Kyo, because he knows through bitter experience that it doesn't mean anything. And while Kagura's feelings are probably genuine enough, it doesn't really matter, because they're not directed at Kyo, they're directed at some image of him she's got in her head--it's no accident that when he wants to know why she wants him, she goes back to when he was a little kid. That's when she fixated on him, and she doesn't appear to have listened to a word he's said since. (Meanwhile Tohru, among her other manifold virtues, is busy checking out books about martial arts because she wants to understand Kyo better.)
I can't decide if Kagura's decision not to go after Kyo in the finale is another demonstration of how she doesn't know him, or the beginning of understanding coming. Her claim--and we'll assume for the moment that this isn't just a cover for fear of him--is that as a member of the zodiac her acceptance of Kyo wouldn't mean as much as Tohru's. This is probably true--while all the people making Kyo miserable on this subject were obviously Sohmas, I think it was less likely to come from the other members of the zodiac, who after all are cursed themselves; even Yuki never pushes this particular button. But for anyone to accept him in his true form would have helped, I think, and it would have been a demonstration of Kagura's feelings for him that no words are ever likely to get across--after all, his mother said that it didn't bother her, and Kyo knew that for a lie. What I can't decide is whether Kagura doesn't understand that she does need to prove her point--and she's never likely to have a better chance--or whether she's realizing that Tohru is more important to Kyo than she is, and for both their sakes doesn't want to give Tohru any competition. (To be honest, either way it doesn't make her look so good, since she gets to stay home in the warm and dry making calm proclamations about what Kyo needs, while Tohru and Yuki are out in the pouring rain searching, and risking their necks when they do find him--at the least, surely she could have helped hold him?) At the very least, I'm willing to grant that it's the start of maturation, to realize that there's something Tohru can do for Kyo that she herself can't. She's still not getting him back, though, not after that ending. :)
Okay,
trixie_chick, I've decided that Kyo really is the worst off--the level of disgust and fear shown him by, uh, pretty much everyone he would have known as he was growing up puts him way over the top. Plus his parents are appalling (not uncommon among the Sohmas, but it does seem particularly bad in this case) and he really does turn into a monster. Poor boy. That said, I still suspect that Yuki would have given his right arm to have someone like Kazuma there for him as he was growing up. Particularly if it was instead of Akito. Add it to the list of "things neither of them understands that the other envies them for." Especially since I have the sneaking suspicion that Kyo, not unreasonably wrapped up in his own problems, just added Akito to the mental list of all the people who adored Yuki--I'm sure it did not help Kyo's attitude towards Yuki that the designated head of the family was obsessed with him--and never realized that that wasn't necessarily a good thing.It also becomes clear to me why Kyo dislikes Kagura's attentions so much. Well, okay, given that Kagura is so violent and obsessive it's not as though he needs reasons, but I confess to having wondering if someone so starved for affection and positive attention wouldn't be at least a little drawn, even against his better judgment, to someone passionately declaring her love for him. In the light of the last few episodes, though, this makes sense. For one thing, she's not the only person who cares about him, and in fact he may view her as a competitor for Kazuma's attention, since he teaches martial arts to all the Sohma kids, and Kagura is apparently better at it than Kyo is. (Do I think this is yet another layer to Kyo's resentment of Yuki? Well--it wouldn't surprise me.) More importantly, though, she bears a strong resemblance to Kyo's mother--constant declarations of love for him paired with a total failure to back them up. Just saying the words isn't enough for Kyo, because he knows through bitter experience that it doesn't mean anything. And while Kagura's feelings are probably genuine enough, it doesn't really matter, because they're not directed at Kyo, they're directed at some image of him she's got in her head--it's no accident that when he wants to know why she wants him, she goes back to when he was a little kid. That's when she fixated on him, and she doesn't appear to have listened to a word he's said since. (Meanwhile Tohru, among her other manifold virtues, is busy checking out books about martial arts because she wants to understand Kyo better.)
I can't decide if Kagura's decision not to go after Kyo in the finale is another demonstration of how she doesn't know him, or the beginning of understanding coming. Her claim--and we'll assume for the moment that this isn't just a cover for fear of him--is that as a member of the zodiac her acceptance of Kyo wouldn't mean as much as Tohru's. This is probably true--while all the people making Kyo miserable on this subject were obviously Sohmas, I think it was less likely to come from the other members of the zodiac, who after all are cursed themselves; even Yuki never pushes this particular button. But for anyone to accept him in his true form would have helped, I think, and it would have been a demonstration of Kagura's feelings for him that no words are ever likely to get across--after all, his mother said that it didn't bother her, and Kyo knew that for a lie. What I can't decide is whether Kagura doesn't understand that she does need to prove her point--and she's never likely to have a better chance--or whether she's realizing that Tohru is more important to Kyo than she is, and for both their sakes doesn't want to give Tohru any competition. (To be honest, either way it doesn't make her look so good, since she gets to stay home in the warm and dry making calm proclamations about what Kyo needs, while Tohru and Yuki are out in the pouring rain searching, and risking their necks when they do find him--at the least, surely she could have helped hold him?) At the very least, I'm willing to grant that it's the start of maturation, to realize that there's something Tohru can do for Kyo that she herself can't. She's still not getting him back, though, not after that ending. :)
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Date: 2004-02-17 05:06 am (UTC)heh.
your observations are quite intriguing, and i must say that i agree with you. (that's a bit more coherent, right?) the dynamics of all of these characters... the way that yuki and kyo are such good compliments for one another, that they can't even see how well they fit together...
and kagura. yes, i think that the main thing is that she reminds him too much of his mother... all big words and grand gestures, but no truth behind it. whether that is true or not, that's how he would see it...
i think that all of the zodiac, and the soma's, prolly, would know that akito-attention is to be feared. heh. and they certainly seem to enjoy pestering poor kyo about being the cat, whether that would mean that they would actually agree with locking him up or not, tho, prolly not. but anyway.
squee!! no bounds to my love for this, let me tell ya... ^_^
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Date: 2004-02-17 03:06 pm (UTC)Well, that probably has to do with how much they annoy each other. ;) Aside from the obvious personality problems, and the competition over Tohru (though that creates less friction than you'd expect), I think it really does infuriate both of them that the other one has things that they want desperately and doesn't seem to appreciate them.
and kagura. yes, i think that the main thing is that she reminds him too much of his mother... all big words and grand gestures, but no truth behind it. whether that is true or not, that's how he would see it...
My snap judgment is that Mama's protestations of love came from the knowledge that she was supposed to love her kid, so she tried to convince both Kyo and herself that it was true, even though the feelings weren't there at all. In Kagura's case, the feelings are there, but they have a lot more to do with the way Kyo behaved when he was three and Kagura's own desire to have a great romance than with Kyo himself. So, not quite the same thing, but to Kyo they would look awfully similar, especially the refrain of "you never looked at me." (I want to believe that the violence is not a parallel. I don't think it is. I don't think.)
i think that all of the zodiac, and the soma's, prolly, would know that akito-attention is to be feared. heh.
You may be right; he can be awfully blatant in his violence (I gather in the manga he put Kisa in the hospital). I want to believe nobody knew what he was doing to Yuki, I really do, but given everything else he gets away with it's entirely possible that they knew and didn't stop him. Still, if there's anyone who didn't realize that Yuki would really rather that he just went away, I'm pretty sure it's Kyo.
and they certainly seem to enjoy pestering poor kyo about being the cat,
Actually I'm not sure that they do. Yuki obviously does, Shigure might (Shigure says lots of insulting things about Kyo, but I'm not sure that he ever specifically attaches them to Kyo being the cat) and possibly Black Haru does, I'd have to go check. And...I think that's it, at least without going to watch the entire series over again. :) It may just seem like more because we hear it so often from Yuki. But definitely the only person we ever hear bring up the "true form" business is Kagura, and then only to insist that it doesn't bother her. If Yuki never goes there, that seems to me an indication that the subject is genuinely off-limits.
whether that would mean that they would actually agree with locking him up or not, tho, prolly not. but anyway.
*shudders* I can't imagine any of the zodiac wanting this, and I really want to believe that even Akito couldn't force their compliance to it. Certainly no one ever mentions it even obliquely. To be fair, there might have been circumstances we're unaware of; if the previous Cat accidentally took the demon-shape and people were killed...it still wouldn't justify locking him up, but it would make it a lot more understandable.
squee!! no bounds to my love for this, let me tell ya... ^_^
I know just how you feel. :) (I've even resorted to going through ff.net. It must be love.)
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Date: 2004-02-18 11:47 am (UTC)heh. plus, it's probably the 'dirtiest' part of their family secret...
now. let me think. Yuki - definitely derides him for being a cat, derides cats in general ('course, he's one with the mousey folk, so... ^_~ ).
shigure teases him, in a shigure way, about everything - pretty sure he mentions cat from time to time. but he's shigure.
hatori would not lower himself to mock anyone... and he's kinda very sympathetic to the oppressed by akito crowd. ^_~
ayame teases kyo mercilessly, mostly because he views kyo as an obstacle to yuki's happiness re: tohru, so...
kagura, yeah, mentions it only as proof of her love (which, yeah, it totally based more on her image of him than him).
momiji doesn't tease people, nor does he seem to treat kyo any differently.
haru doesn't really mention the cat angle, except when he's gone black, i guess, but he does set himself up as a rival of sorts to kyo. (heh, there's kinda a pecking order there, of kyo trying to defeat yuki, with much higher stakes, of course, so that he can prove himself, and haru trying to defeat kyo to prove himself...)
kisa and hiro don't really seem to have much to do with kyo, but given how much younger they are, even hiro would prolly have better manners than to deride him.
ritsu is an idiot. ~_~
ah, and my precious akito... he definitely derides kyo for being a cat... says that the cat is the worst of the zodiac, and we know how he feels about the curse in general.
now i'm thinking... are akito's evil machinations are a part of the anime? *can't remember* but apparently he's been playing one against the other... telling kyo that he has to defeat yuki in a fight, or else when he turns 18, he's going to be locked up and the key thrown away, as fitting for a cat, and then turning around and telling yuki that he can only live outside the soma family home as long as he doesn't lose to kyo in a fight.
damn, akito is evil.... purr. ^_^
so. yeah. heh. ^_^
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Date: 2004-02-18 05:09 pm (UTC)In Yuki's defense these remarks are often preceded by "damn rat!"--but Yuki picks the fights just as often. Really a lot of very old bad blood there, and he's definitely the worst offender. (For some reason I find his coolly telling Tohru that the cat is a fool and has no place in the zodiac particularly appalling, even though Kyo isn't present.)
pretty sure he mentions cat from time to time. but he's shigure.
Nothing's immediately coming to mind, but I wouldn't rule it out. And of course he has lots more time with Kyo than most of them.
hatori would not lower himself to mock anyone...
You know, I can't remember Hatori ever actually speaking to Kyo. Or Yuki, for that matter. Maybe on the lake trip...
(That said, he mocks Shigure and Ayame plenty, he just does it in such a deadpan voice that it doesn't register as such. They're always askin' for it, though. ;)
Ayame teases kyo mercilessly,
Oh yes. But not, I think, about being the Cat...unless...is that what "Kyo-nichi" means? Hang on a moment.
*googles*
The Japanese word for cat is "neko." That's...very close. And it would explain why the name makes him go ballistic. Okay, add Ayame provisionally to the list.
haru doesn't really mention the cat angle, except when he's gone black, i guess, but he does set himself up as a rival of sorts to kyo.
I had this extremely amusing image, rewatching their fight, of Yuki being the prize. ;) Theoretically it might make sense that Yuki is involved in the rivalry, actually, but we never get any sense of that; there never seems to be anything personal between Kyo and Haru. Though there really ought to be some dramatic material involved in their starting from the same place...
even hiro would prolly have better manners than to deride him.
Actually, Kyo and Hiro have several acrimonious exchanges, mainly because Kyo (not unreasonably) objects to the way Hiro treats Tohru, and Hiro responds in his usual infuriating way. Relying on Hiro's manners is not safe. :) But on the other hand he doesn't seem to have anything personal against Kyo, and I don't think he brings up the Cat. (He really does bait him very badly, though; Hiro knows that there are adults who will hurt him, so does he think that Kyo's not one of them or does he just figure his self-importance is worth the pain?)
Kisa, no, nothing going on there.
ritsu is an idiot.
*laughs* You're not suggesting that idiocy is connected to not teasing Kyo, are you? (Although Kyo might prefer being teased to having Ritsu in his general vicinity...hmm, who would he rather have as houseguest, Ayame or Ritsu...tough choice. :)
akito... he definitely derides kyo for being a cat... says that the cat is the worst of the zodiac, and we know how he feels about the curse in general.
I just don't remember this. Do you remember where it is? (Mind you, I'm not saying that he wouldn't or didn't say it; he would. It just isn't ringing any bells.)
now i'm thinking... are akito's evil machinations are a part of the anime? *can't remember* but apparently he's been playing one against the other... telling kyo that he has to defeat yuki in a fight, or else when he turns 18, he's going to be locked up and the key thrown away, as fitting for a cat, and then turning around and telling yuki that he can only live outside the soma family home as long as he doesn't lose to kyo in a fight.
*stares* That...is not in the anime. I am quite sure I'd remember.
Um. Well. I'd been wondering where Kyo got the idea that he had to fight Yuki... And of course neither of them is likely to discuss it with the other...
Admittedly I wonder what Akito would do if one of the zodiac just said, screw this, I'm moving to Europe. Kyo and Yuki are still a bit young for it, but as hard as he's pushing... Would people come to forcibly drag them back? Or does the curse (along with all their life-history and societal expectations) just make it a near-impossibility to contemplate doing? (Near. It must be near. Hatori disobeyed Akito, so the thing is possible...)
damn, akito is evil.... purr. ^_^
Well. Yes. I'd have to agree with that. :)
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Date: 2004-02-19 05:24 am (UTC)absolutely, on all counts. hot, boiling over hate, like kyo's, is much less scary than cool, calculating hate, like yuki's. (tho both are really just jealous and trapped...)
of course hatori mocks shigure and ayame. he's got to keep them in line. ^_~
mm, i don't think ayame's little nickname for kyo is a derivation of cat, but i could be wrong. i think it's more of a diminutive. *doesn't really know* at any rate, you are prolly right, and he prolly doesn't directly 'attack' kyo for being the cat, but he is kinda merciless. again, he's looking out for his lil bro. he wants him to win the princess. ^_~
course, why a threesome wouldn't occur to him is beyond me, unless he doesn't think of yuki and kyo as being compatible...
I had this extremely amusing image, rewatching their fight, of Yuki being the prize. ;)
hee, winner takes yuki!! *leers* i'm sure haru would love that... ^_~
mm, in regards to hiro, i know that he is a brat to everyone, i just meant that he wouldn't call kyo 'stupid cat' or make fun of his true form, because kyo is so much older, and yes, kyo would kill him. ^_~ he wouldn't get his ass kicked for being regular brat (tho he came damn close when he was mocking tohru...) but he would if he mentioned kyo's true form, or his place in the family.
*laughs* You're not suggesting that idiocy is connected to not teasing Kyo, are you?
le sigh, no, but ritsu is too busy deriding himself to mock anyone else... ~_~
a worse houseguest, ritsu or ayame? well, my answer wouldn't count... yuki would definitely prefer ritsu. shigure would definitely prefer ayame. *wiggles eyebrows* kyo? *ponders* i think kyo can deal with ayame better than with ritsu... ritsu is just girlie and weak, which (i would think...) would just make kyo uncomfortable. ^_~
I just don't remember this. Do you remember where it is?
le sigh. there's the whole end sequence... akito talking to kyo's master... where they are kinda working together for opposite goals. kyo's master wants tohru to find out to prove her affection for kyo, and give him the boost, but akito is nearly wetting himself at the thought that tohru's discovery will blow apart the happy little home away from his thumb. and there are numerous flashbacks thereabouts... i used this icon because it's from a flashback where a child akito rips away kyo's bracelet, so he can see the true form, and then he makes a face. i'd have to rewatch, but i'm pretty sure akito makes some comments about the cat to either kyo's master or to tohru or to someone else. *shrugs*
also, if you consider the context of kyo's struggle... the cat gets locked up because he's a disgrace to the family. that rule has to come from the head of the family - the emperor who locked the cat out from his party. so ultimately, all of kyo's ostracization from the family stems from akito, or rather, the emperor.
and akito is damned good at being the emperor... ^_~
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Date: 2004-02-19 05:25 am (UTC)Admittedly I wonder what Akito would do if one of the zodiac just said, screw this, I'm moving to Europe.
i think there a a few things at play there. first, and probably foremost, is the cultural respect the japanese would have for the head of the house. just think of how tohru is so nervous to meet akito before she even gets a glimmer of the real fear he inspires. a regular soma might be able to just say, screw it, but a member of the zodiac would have... other problems. it's all well and good to say screw it, and run off, but if you are discovered without the shelter of the family to protect you... it's more than enough to justify obediance through fear.
i suspect, tho i don't know for sure, that it is also akito's 'blessing' from the curse. he is made the head of the house, and he is the scapegoat, destined to die young for the family, so in exchange he gets the loyalty of all, regardless of whether they want to give it to him. *shrugs* would explain the... compulsion to try to understand/live with akito that, most espeically, hatori shows.
and hatori didn't really disobey akito... he fell in love, but then he asked permission to marry. and he accepted (well, it was kinda moot after that anyway...) akito's ruling. i don't recall any other instance when he wasn't right under akito's thumb.
*shrugs*
i so adore akito... he's such an enigma.... ^_^
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Date: 2004-02-19 11:15 am (UTC)Perhaps he could invest in a couple of leashes. ;)
mm, i don't think ayame's little nickname for kyo is a derivation of cat, but i could be wrong. i think it's more of a diminutive. *doesn't really know*
Further research determines that nichi means "day" or "sun," while the dub translates it as "lucky"--probably just mistranslation, but wouldn't it infuriate Kyo?--and, you're right, it could just be a diminutive. I await with interest seeing how it comes out in the manga. :) (One thing I really like about the manga is that the translations are reasonably close to the subtitled version, but they come out much, much smoother.)
course, why a threesome wouldn't occur to him is beyond me, unless he doesn't think of yuki and kyo as being compatible...
He probably just doesn't think they'd go for it--remember, he barely knows either of them anyway, and their reaction to his stories (and his flirting with Shigure) is to flee the room. (On the other hand, wasn't he responsible for getting all three of them to go out to the lake together? Hmm. Maybe he's just being subtle for once in his life. :)
hee, winner takes yuki!! *leers* i'm sure haru would love that...
Kyo, on the other hand, stares in horror. ;)
i just meant that he wouldn't call kyo 'stupid cat' or make fun of his true form, because kyo is so much older, and yes, kyo would kill him. ^_~ he wouldn't get his ass kicked for being regular brat (tho he came damn close when he was mocking tohru...) but he would if he mentioned kyo's true form, or his place in the family.
Upon checking, it turns out he actually did say this--"since when is a cat the head of this household?"--and Kyo did have to be restrained from killing him several times. *pauses* Um...not literally. (Sometimes with this series I feel a need to clarify these things.) But I'm pretty sure Hiro would have had bruises if anyone had left the two of them alone together. His sense of self-preservation isn't that great, either. :)
*ponders* i think kyo can deal with ayame better than with ritsu... ritsu is just girlie and weak, which (i would think...) would just make kyo uncomfortable.
On the other hand, Kyo won't wake up and find Ritsu in his bed...
(Remember, Kyo's reaction, not yours. ;)
i'd have to rewatch, but i'm pretty sure akito makes some comments about the cat to either kyo's master or to tohru or to someone else. *shrugs*
Huh. Just watched these episodes and don't recall it. Maybe I need to...watch them again. ;)
(Oh, no, not the Fruits Basket finale! Don't throw me in the briar patch!!)
also, if you consider the context of kyo's struggle... the cat gets locked up because he's a disgrace to the family. that rule has to come from the head of the family - the emperor who locked the cat out from his party. so ultimately, all of kyo's ostracization from the family stems from akito, or rather, the emperor.
True, although in the anime he doesn't seem to be putting a lot of effort into it--even what he does to Kyo in the finale seems to be primarily motivated by his desire to get rid of Tohru and bring Yuki back home. (Not that I think that would comfort Kyo.) But it wasn't that I thought Akito would like Kyo--even if you took all the zodiac stuff out of it I don't think they'd get along personality-wise--I just didn't remember that line. It sounds like he's much more active about tormenting Kyo in the manga, though. *shudders*
(I will not fantasize about Kyo getting locked up and Yuki coming to rescue him. I won't. Too melodramatic. Besides, it's Kyo's turn...)
and akito is damned good at being the emperor...
In a creepy, evil way, absolutely. ;) He does have a lot of force of personality and a good understanding of how to manipulate people, and he does protect the family, although he's always happy to inflict as much damage as possible in the process.
Re:
Date: 2004-02-19 11:19 am (UTC)*snickers* Yes, because double posts are bad! *pause* Wait a minute... ;)
i think there a a few things at play there. first, and probably foremost, is the cultural respect the japanese would have for the head of the house. just think of how tohru is so nervous to meet akito before she even gets a glimmer of the real fear he inspires. a regular soma might be able to just say, screw it, but a member of the zodiac would have... other problems. it's all well and good to say screw it, and run off, but if you are discovered without the shelter of the family to protect you... it's more than enough to justify obediance through fear.
All true; I'm aware this is one of the places where the cultural context involved is very different from mine. And a lot of the zodiac probably get enough bad experiences as it is to make them not want to test it out (Momiji and his mother, for example). If Kyo were put between a rock and a hard place, though, I think it could happen; his respect-for-authority quotient is...a little low, the shelter of the family hasn't been all that great for him anyway, and if he's going to be locked up in a cage...well, could the outside world really be worse? That said, even granting that he was off in the mountains for four months (Shigure claims he was missing, but Kyo says Kazuma was there, so I'm unclear how much of an independent act that was), it really never seems to occur to him. He's all focused on getting respect within the family. Yuki might wish he could just leave, but doesn't believe he has the strength for it.
i suspect, tho i don't know for sure, that it is also akito's 'blessing' from the curse. he is made the head of the house, and he is the scapegoat, destined to die young for the family, so in exchange he gets the loyalty of all, regardless of whether they want to give it to him. *shrugs* would explain the... compulsion to try to understand/live with akito that, most espeically, hatori shows.
*nods* You put that in your Ayame fic, and it made a lot of sense to me.
and hatori didn't really disobey akito... he fell in love, but then he asked permission to marry. and he accepted (well, it was kinda moot after that anyway...) akito's ruling. i don't recall any other instance when he wasn't right under akito's thumb.
Very end of the anime. He screams at Hatori to erase Tohru's memories, and Hatori doesn't do anything. (I'm not sure if it's meaningful that Yuki and Shigure move to restrain him from attacking Tohru; I seem vaguely to recall that somebody grabbed him after he maimed Hatori. But Hatori disobeying a direct order would seem to be new.)
i so adore akito... he's such an enigma....
Partly, yes. But one of the good things about this story is that...well, okay, it's not entirely untrue to say that he's evil for evil's sake. But still, he has comprehensible motivations, a believable state of mind, and a certain amount of sympathy coming. (Especially if breaking the curse, whatever that might entail, won't save him...) He's Evil, but we have a pretty good idea why.