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Aug. 30th, 2004 08:32 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
greenygalIn an effort to make myself feel better, I've been reading my old Giffen/Dematteis JLI comics. And I have random comments to share.
(If you haven't read the books, this won't be terribly comprehensible. Go look them up instead. They're far more entertaining than anything I'm going to say.)
--Not that I didn't know this, but the book is much more serious than it appears, both in the sense of having depth and of bad things happening. The *very first issue* ends with the suicide of a terrorist due to Max's (unrepentant) manipulation. And there's Wandjina's sacrifice, and Max's redemption, and Beetle's brainwashing, and J'onn and Diana suffering for the deaths they cause in Invasion, and the "repo the vampire" story, and the punk who gets hold of a mega-rod, and the casual slaughter of Gypsy's family, and Mr. Miracle's "death," and and and... Heck, the Club JLI story--often called the silliest moment of the run--involves four people, one of them badly injured, being stranded on a melting hunk of ice in the middle of the ocean, *and* it sets up Booster's angry resignation. The serious bits sometimes stand out better, in fact, for being surrounded with so much silliness; when Beetle gets serious or Guy behaves like a human being, the contrast is very noticeable indeed. (Yes, the latter does happen. Don't make me cite issues at you.)
--Speaking of serious moments, Mr. Miracle's funeral is one of my favorite issues in all of comics. It continually astonishes me that it can get the reaction that it does when I know that it's not for real, and never was for real, but watching the Leaguers' grief is so involving that it just doesn't seem to matter.
--One could be forgiven for wondering if the League ever actually won any fights. The bad guys tended to decide that this was too much trouble, or they had to go stop a nuclear meltdown, or a cosmic being showed up and ended the fight, or J'onn pulled out a brand-new one-time superpower... I'm not complaining, exactly--in particular, it's genuinely neat that a big fight with Metron was averted by having a sensible conversation with him--but I suspect if I'd been reading this book as it came out I'd've been suffering a lot of anticlimax in places.
--Beetle and Booster team up to take down the bad guy in their very first appearance together! Go Blue and Gold! (Fixation? Who, me?)
--This is also the issue where Batman smiles at Booster, says he has brains to spare, and announces that he's impressed. You can tell it was early in the relationship.
--Actually, in JLI Batman smiles a...well, no, not a *lot*, but he does smile. He has a sense of humor and everything. Even makes Trek jokes. I kinda like it.
--I couldn't possibly leave this out: "One punch! ONE PUNCH!!" "...oh, god, I'm depressed." *snicker* But to get analytical about it for a second, I think this kind of confounding of expectations is something that Giffen takes real pleasure in. And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, but this is one of the times it *really* works.
--I don't have to tell anybody that Guy should have been under observation in a hospital after he hit his head, right? Right. (No, I'm not complaining, but in any other book I would have been.)
--Poor Captain Atom. I think everyone's aware that the characters in JLI behave...somewhat differently...than in other books, but given that probably none of you ever read CAPTAIN ATOM I want to make clear that he's usually considerably less pompous and has a far better sense of humor. I chalk it up as a reaction to his lunatic teammates.
--Booster Gold, on the other hand, strikes me as surprisingly close to source material, possibly because he was already an unusually self-centered and materialistic character. Meanwhile the general consensus is that Beetle is totally OOC, but also that his DC series was dull as dirt, so nobody cared. Having read a few issues of that series, I'm inclined to agree on both counts.
--Wow, I'd kind of forgotten that Fire and Ice both used to wear really low-cut bathing suits. (Also that they used to call themselves Green Flame and Icemaiden.) It doesn't bother me on Fire the exhibitionist--although even she gets to wear more when she changes costumes--but it's desperately wrong for the more practical and conservative Ice. Yay for fully clothed superheroines.
--Hawkman and Orion were treated as such one-note, one-joke characters that I wanted them gone as soon as they arrived. Guy Gardner got more nuanced treatment than that. Ouch.
--G'nort has the same effect on me he has on the characters, i.e. profound cringing irritation; in places I find myself just skipping over his lines. Why he conjures up this reaction when the Injustice League don't, I don't know, but it is so. (Needless to say I was not terribly pleased to see him back in FKATJL, and I hope we can leave him in Antarctica for the sequel story.)
--Now that I'm better acquainted with Amanda Waller, it becomes clear why her attempt to deprogram Beetle of the Queen Bee's conditioning was such a total failure: she's got no idea what she's doing! The Wall's background is in politics, not psychology or espionage; this is a job requiring training and expertise (if J'onn can't deal with it, you *need* an expert), and she doesn't have them. True, as the head of the Suicide Squad she's got more familiarity with brainwashing than your average person, but only to the degree of overseeing specialists. (Honest, I've got no idea why Waller was drafted for this story--she's well-written, but there's just no reason anyone would come to her for this.)
--There really are no words for how I love Beetle and Booster. This is no surprise, as I have an enormous button labelled "partners;" gets me every damn time. But really, how am I supposed to resist them running around bantering and spending off-duty time together and saying things like "you're my best friend in any century" and having fights and making up and on one notable occasion getting shirtless together? (What? I'm shallow. Well, okay, actually they didn't look all that attractive in that one, but it's the principle of the thing.)
--Beetle would probably like us to forget this, but *he* was the chronic jokester and troublemaker in the Blue and Gold pairing--half the time Booster comes off as his straight man. Mind you, that's *half* the time, as in not remotely *all* the time, but still, Beetle is the one who came up with Club JLI; Booster is the one who quit the League because he was tired of not being taken seriously.
--And speaking of Club JLI: you know, if I were just starting up a casino--especially if I had stolen all my startup money and needed to show a profit immediately to replace it--and a customer started winning *every* *single* *game*, I would ask him to leave before he got anywhere near taking all my money. We reserve the right to refuse service, yadda yadda, we'll work out if he's actually cheating later.
--Minor detail, but there are some lovely coloring effects on Beetle's and Booster's goggles. I also like that you can see their eyes.
--Now that I know what DeMatteis sounds like in spiritual mode, I can hear that "voice" come through occasionally, most notably in Scott Free's eulogy.
--Max uses his metagenic manipulation ability surprisingly rarely--prior to "Breakdowns" I think we only see it in four issues. This may be because it's not a very nice power, and Giffen/DeMatteis were trying to sell Max as mostly reformed, or he may just have got crowded out by the spandex brigade--I love him, but he's not as strong a presence in the book as I'd thought. And frequently he shows up just to have headaches about whatever it is the Leaguers have done now. (Which is one reason it surprises me he doesn't use it more--if you had the ability to *make* Guy sit down and shut up, wouldn't you? Moral issues or no moral issues?)
--That said, I like the attempt to explore Max using his power as a superhero (inasmuch as this is a reasonable description of an issue that's mostly a bizarre alcoholic nightmare). Sure, it's all played for (really funny) laughs, but it's interesting to speculate whether it says anything about Max--is the overly violent "Maximum Force" who he secretly wants to be sometimes? Or who he's *afraid* he'd be if he let himself use the ability? Or is the whole thing just expressing his subconscious guilt over mentally manipulating Wanda to come over and talk to him? (Dear god, I'm trying to find serious meaning in the Maximum Force issue. Shoot me now.)
--Although while I'm still on Max in this issue, the fact that he can't handle alcohol at all amuses and endears me--say it with me, West Wing fans: he's got a delicate system ;)--as does the fact that he has trouble walking up to a woman he's attracted to and saying "hi." And I am utterly disarmed by his falling in love because she puts him to bed after he passes out, and then spends the night in a separate bed. I mean, don't get me wrong, I think that's amazingly sweet myself, but it's neat that it's something so low-key and nonsexual that gets him. One suspects Max isn't used to TLC from people who aren't getting anything out of it.
--Evidently Kilowog is really, really bored for him to be so pleased when Guy shows up to see him: he couldn't *stand* Guy in GREEN LANTERN CORPS.
--Moment that made me shudder: the punk who stole Barda's mega-rod has just blown himself up with it (this whole issue was supremely creepy). Scott's grieving, furious; he wanted to save the kid from Darkseid's influence. "Yes--poor thing," says Huntress. And smiles.
--I would have liked the Despero saga more if I wasn't constantly having to squint to read his narration. Granted it's not critical to the plot, but it's supposed to be setting mood and characterization, and I wish it was easier to read.
--You know, if I were Ice I'd be pretty ticked at Beetle about his Ice Capades stunt. It can't have helped her enjoyment of the outing any to have her date in a state of paralyzed rage, nor do I think she really wanted the evening to be a test of how far Guy could be deliberately provoked until he snapped. (And granted that his motives were ignoble, but he did better than expected, there--I think most of the Leaguers would have had trouble keeping their temper in that situation.)
--I know there are people who don't like the General Glory saga. I am not one of them. I admit to some surprise that Giffen/DeMatteis spent five issues on the story, and it should feel padded, but it doesn't--it feels hysterical. Watching the JLI try to deal with a 40s superhero never gets old--I'm particularly entertained by J'onn's horror at the idea of kid sidekicks--and somehow the very clear mockery always manages to keep a sympathetic edge. Plus, Guy's reactions make the whole thing worth it easily.
--I think J'onn and Kilowog are being a little unreasonable in their reaction to the INS directive for aliens to register with them--why should immigrants from other planets not have to deal with any of the requirements applied to immigrants from other countries?
--In the issues I've got--and granted I'm missing large chunks of "Breakdowns"--Ted's weight problem really doesn't seem to be handled with intent to humiliate (which is the impression I get from a lot of people). Sure, he looks bad, but a) his immediate reaction upon realizing there's a problem is to go do something about it, and b) when he gets into a fight with Guy shortly afterwards, he's winning until Guy breaks the rules (and Ted's ribs).
--Max being shot is still shocking to me, and that's in the full knowledge that he'll be fine. I can't imagine what it was like to read that when it came out.
--There really is nothing funnier than the Injustice League trying to pay their respects to the hospitalized Max and winding up in what they can't convince anyone is not a hostage situation. "If we'd wanted to kill Lord, he'd be dead by now!" "Judging by our track record, if we'd wanted to kill Lord *we'd* be dead by now." "True, but either way, they should know he's in no danger."
(If you haven't read the books, this won't be terribly comprehensible. Go look them up instead. They're far more entertaining than anything I'm going to say.)
--Not that I didn't know this, but the book is much more serious than it appears, both in the sense of having depth and of bad things happening. The *very first issue* ends with the suicide of a terrorist due to Max's (unrepentant) manipulation. And there's Wandjina's sacrifice, and Max's redemption, and Beetle's brainwashing, and J'onn and Diana suffering for the deaths they cause in Invasion, and the "repo the vampire" story, and the punk who gets hold of a mega-rod, and the casual slaughter of Gypsy's family, and Mr. Miracle's "death," and and and... Heck, the Club JLI story--often called the silliest moment of the run--involves four people, one of them badly injured, being stranded on a melting hunk of ice in the middle of the ocean, *and* it sets up Booster's angry resignation. The serious bits sometimes stand out better, in fact, for being surrounded with so much silliness; when Beetle gets serious or Guy behaves like a human being, the contrast is very noticeable indeed. (Yes, the latter does happen. Don't make me cite issues at you.)
--Speaking of serious moments, Mr. Miracle's funeral is one of my favorite issues in all of comics. It continually astonishes me that it can get the reaction that it does when I know that it's not for real, and never was for real, but watching the Leaguers' grief is so involving that it just doesn't seem to matter.
--One could be forgiven for wondering if the League ever actually won any fights. The bad guys tended to decide that this was too much trouble, or they had to go stop a nuclear meltdown, or a cosmic being showed up and ended the fight, or J'onn pulled out a brand-new one-time superpower... I'm not complaining, exactly--in particular, it's genuinely neat that a big fight with Metron was averted by having a sensible conversation with him--but I suspect if I'd been reading this book as it came out I'd've been suffering a lot of anticlimax in places.
--Beetle and Booster team up to take down the bad guy in their very first appearance together! Go Blue and Gold! (Fixation? Who, me?)
--This is also the issue where Batman smiles at Booster, says he has brains to spare, and announces that he's impressed. You can tell it was early in the relationship.
--Actually, in JLI Batman smiles a...well, no, not a *lot*, but he does smile. He has a sense of humor and everything. Even makes Trek jokes. I kinda like it.
--I couldn't possibly leave this out: "One punch! ONE PUNCH!!" "...oh, god, I'm depressed." *snicker* But to get analytical about it for a second, I think this kind of confounding of expectations is something that Giffen takes real pleasure in. And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, but this is one of the times it *really* works.
--I don't have to tell anybody that Guy should have been under observation in a hospital after he hit his head, right? Right. (No, I'm not complaining, but in any other book I would have been.)
--Poor Captain Atom. I think everyone's aware that the characters in JLI behave...somewhat differently...than in other books, but given that probably none of you ever read CAPTAIN ATOM I want to make clear that he's usually considerably less pompous and has a far better sense of humor. I chalk it up as a reaction to his lunatic teammates.
--Booster Gold, on the other hand, strikes me as surprisingly close to source material, possibly because he was already an unusually self-centered and materialistic character. Meanwhile the general consensus is that Beetle is totally OOC, but also that his DC series was dull as dirt, so nobody cared. Having read a few issues of that series, I'm inclined to agree on both counts.
--Wow, I'd kind of forgotten that Fire and Ice both used to wear really low-cut bathing suits. (Also that they used to call themselves Green Flame and Icemaiden.) It doesn't bother me on Fire the exhibitionist--although even she gets to wear more when she changes costumes--but it's desperately wrong for the more practical and conservative Ice. Yay for fully clothed superheroines.
--Hawkman and Orion were treated as such one-note, one-joke characters that I wanted them gone as soon as they arrived. Guy Gardner got more nuanced treatment than that. Ouch.
--G'nort has the same effect on me he has on the characters, i.e. profound cringing irritation; in places I find myself just skipping over his lines. Why he conjures up this reaction when the Injustice League don't, I don't know, but it is so. (Needless to say I was not terribly pleased to see him back in FKATJL, and I hope we can leave him in Antarctica for the sequel story.)
--Now that I'm better acquainted with Amanda Waller, it becomes clear why her attempt to deprogram Beetle of the Queen Bee's conditioning was such a total failure: she's got no idea what she's doing! The Wall's background is in politics, not psychology or espionage; this is a job requiring training and expertise (if J'onn can't deal with it, you *need* an expert), and she doesn't have them. True, as the head of the Suicide Squad she's got more familiarity with brainwashing than your average person, but only to the degree of overseeing specialists. (Honest, I've got no idea why Waller was drafted for this story--she's well-written, but there's just no reason anyone would come to her for this.)
--There really are no words for how I love Beetle and Booster. This is no surprise, as I have an enormous button labelled "partners;" gets me every damn time. But really, how am I supposed to resist them running around bantering and spending off-duty time together and saying things like "you're my best friend in any century" and having fights and making up and on one notable occasion getting shirtless together? (What? I'm shallow. Well, okay, actually they didn't look all that attractive in that one, but it's the principle of the thing.)
--Beetle would probably like us to forget this, but *he* was the chronic jokester and troublemaker in the Blue and Gold pairing--half the time Booster comes off as his straight man. Mind you, that's *half* the time, as in not remotely *all* the time, but still, Beetle is the one who came up with Club JLI; Booster is the one who quit the League because he was tired of not being taken seriously.
--And speaking of Club JLI: you know, if I were just starting up a casino--especially if I had stolen all my startup money and needed to show a profit immediately to replace it--and a customer started winning *every* *single* *game*, I would ask him to leave before he got anywhere near taking all my money. We reserve the right to refuse service, yadda yadda, we'll work out if he's actually cheating later.
--Minor detail, but there are some lovely coloring effects on Beetle's and Booster's goggles. I also like that you can see their eyes.
--Now that I know what DeMatteis sounds like in spiritual mode, I can hear that "voice" come through occasionally, most notably in Scott Free's eulogy.
--Max uses his metagenic manipulation ability surprisingly rarely--prior to "Breakdowns" I think we only see it in four issues. This may be because it's not a very nice power, and Giffen/DeMatteis were trying to sell Max as mostly reformed, or he may just have got crowded out by the spandex brigade--I love him, but he's not as strong a presence in the book as I'd thought. And frequently he shows up just to have headaches about whatever it is the Leaguers have done now. (Which is one reason it surprises me he doesn't use it more--if you had the ability to *make* Guy sit down and shut up, wouldn't you? Moral issues or no moral issues?)
--That said, I like the attempt to explore Max using his power as a superhero (inasmuch as this is a reasonable description of an issue that's mostly a bizarre alcoholic nightmare). Sure, it's all played for (really funny) laughs, but it's interesting to speculate whether it says anything about Max--is the overly violent "Maximum Force" who he secretly wants to be sometimes? Or who he's *afraid* he'd be if he let himself use the ability? Or is the whole thing just expressing his subconscious guilt over mentally manipulating Wanda to come over and talk to him? (Dear god, I'm trying to find serious meaning in the Maximum Force issue. Shoot me now.)
--Although while I'm still on Max in this issue, the fact that he can't handle alcohol at all amuses and endears me--say it with me, West Wing fans: he's got a delicate system ;)--as does the fact that he has trouble walking up to a woman he's attracted to and saying "hi." And I am utterly disarmed by his falling in love because she puts him to bed after he passes out, and then spends the night in a separate bed. I mean, don't get me wrong, I think that's amazingly sweet myself, but it's neat that it's something so low-key and nonsexual that gets him. One suspects Max isn't used to TLC from people who aren't getting anything out of it.
--Evidently Kilowog is really, really bored for him to be so pleased when Guy shows up to see him: he couldn't *stand* Guy in GREEN LANTERN CORPS.
--Moment that made me shudder: the punk who stole Barda's mega-rod has just blown himself up with it (this whole issue was supremely creepy). Scott's grieving, furious; he wanted to save the kid from Darkseid's influence. "Yes--poor thing," says Huntress. And smiles.
--I would have liked the Despero saga more if I wasn't constantly having to squint to read his narration. Granted it's not critical to the plot, but it's supposed to be setting mood and characterization, and I wish it was easier to read.
--You know, if I were Ice I'd be pretty ticked at Beetle about his Ice Capades stunt. It can't have helped her enjoyment of the outing any to have her date in a state of paralyzed rage, nor do I think she really wanted the evening to be a test of how far Guy could be deliberately provoked until he snapped. (And granted that his motives were ignoble, but he did better than expected, there--I think most of the Leaguers would have had trouble keeping their temper in that situation.)
--I know there are people who don't like the General Glory saga. I am not one of them. I admit to some surprise that Giffen/DeMatteis spent five issues on the story, and it should feel padded, but it doesn't--it feels hysterical. Watching the JLI try to deal with a 40s superhero never gets old--I'm particularly entertained by J'onn's horror at the idea of kid sidekicks--and somehow the very clear mockery always manages to keep a sympathetic edge. Plus, Guy's reactions make the whole thing worth it easily.
--I think J'onn and Kilowog are being a little unreasonable in their reaction to the INS directive for aliens to register with them--why should immigrants from other planets not have to deal with any of the requirements applied to immigrants from other countries?
--In the issues I've got--and granted I'm missing large chunks of "Breakdowns"--Ted's weight problem really doesn't seem to be handled with intent to humiliate (which is the impression I get from a lot of people). Sure, he looks bad, but a) his immediate reaction upon realizing there's a problem is to go do something about it, and b) when he gets into a fight with Guy shortly afterwards, he's winning until Guy breaks the rules (and Ted's ribs).
--Max being shot is still shocking to me, and that's in the full knowledge that he'll be fine. I can't imagine what it was like to read that when it came out.
--There really is nothing funnier than the Injustice League trying to pay their respects to the hospitalized Max and winding up in what they can't convince anyone is not a hostage situation. "If we'd wanted to kill Lord, he'd be dead by now!" "Judging by our track record, if we'd wanted to kill Lord *we'd* be dead by now." "True, but either way, they should know he's in no danger."
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Date: 2004-08-30 06:47 pm (UTC)I will never ever stop laughing my ass off at the one punch bit. ::snickers madly:: Heh.
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Date: 2004-09-02 08:02 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-09-03 03:58 am (UTC)I don't think dated would be the word that would come to mind. Not for the early Giffen/DeMatteis and not even for the later JLA/JLI/JLTF issues.
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Date: 2004-09-03 06:58 am (UTC)Certain aspects of the book reflect the 80s, of course, like the inclusion of Rocket Red, but it's nothing that damages the story. Dimitri is a character, not a representation of a political point.
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Date: 2004-08-30 07:19 pm (UTC)Also, Kilowag is sounding more and more like my kind of GL. :-)
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Date: 2004-09-02 08:18 pm (UTC)Kilowog hated Guy so much that when the Green Lanterns then stationed on Earth voted to let Guy stay with them, Kilowog left the group. (And wound up going to Russia instead, in one of the book's more ambitious stories...)
Knowing this, his portrayal in JLI is definitely a little strange, but...he i>was that bored. :)
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Date: 2004-08-30 07:29 pm (UTC)Before I even clicked on the cut-tag, THOSE were the lines I was repeating to myself.
My fave Booster moment of all time (which may be fuzzy with age since I read these issues back when they were first published, while I was still in high school) may still be the huge brawl on Apokalips, where someone asks him what's going on, and he starts quoting "All My Children" plot summaries.
Goddam, I loved Max Lord. Tho if I were Dr Light, I would killed him. Max was just damn lucky Kimiyo didn't bash his head in with that damn signal device when she found out she'd been duped. The panel of her in the UN bathroom, her head on the table and the still-beeping device in her upraised hand? Remains firmly etched in my memory, 15 or so years later.
no subject
Date: 2004-09-02 08:27 pm (UTC)Oh, it got even better! In the lettercol for that issue, someone from NBC wrote in to comment that evidently Booster had been offplanet for so long that he was way behind on his show, and did a straight-faced thirty-second summation of the events since then. Evil twins were involved. :)
The panel of her in the UN bathroom, her head on the table and the still-beeping device in her upraised hand? Remains firmly etched in my memory, 15 or so years later.
Oh, that was lovely. Poor Kimiyo, so clearly having One Of Those Days... And I loved that she didn't go. Somebody else was going to have to save the planet, she had her job and it was important and she wasn't gonna blow it off for the League.
THANK YOU!
Date: 2004-08-30 08:00 pm (UTC)Re: THANK YOU!
Date: 2004-09-02 08:36 pm (UTC)(In this round of rereading the books, I've also gone around picking up various associated stuff that I hadn't got to before, one of which was the annual with the shockingly serious J'onn backup story. I remember thinking that you must have been the target audience for that one, especially given that it's him and Batman... ;)
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Date: 2004-08-30 08:40 pm (UTC)bounces over to my run of JLI and JLE and JLA and starts reading again
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Date: 2004-09-02 08:38 pm (UTC)*giggles, is six*
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Date: 2004-09-02 08:43 pm (UTC)